vikinger og Grøn fluesvampe...

  • sad lige og diskutered med en kammerart om at vikinger indtog grøn fluesvampe i en meget lille dosis som tog frygten fra dem, og at det var derfor andre folk dengang frygted vikinger fra norden. de kaldes vidst bersærker ?


    men håber i har lidt mere viden eller nogle link hvor man kan læse det .

  • Bersærkergang


    Bersærkergang er betegnelsen for en tilstand, hvor man angriber sanseløst og vildt, uden skjold eller anden beskyttelse. Dette kender man også fra andre krigersamfund.


    Bersærkergang er kendt fra vikingetiden.


    Hvad der fremkaldte bersærkergang er der flere meninger om; en populær antagelse er at vikingekrigere drak en drik brygget på fluesvamp inden kampen, mens andre ser tilstanden som shamanistisk trance som kunne besætte krigere inden kampen. For den sidste teori taler to ting: Den dødeligt giftige dosis fluesvamp ligger kritisk tæt på den dosis der skal til for at fremkalde euforiserende virkning og kun nogle krigere gik bersærk - ligesom ikke alle har evner for at gå i trance.



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  • Lidt ligesom Tony Montana gør sidst i filmen, han indtager utrolig meget narkotika og går fuldstændig amok med en M16A2-M203.

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  • Quote

    Originally posted by RAC
    Lidt ligesom Tony Montana gør sidst i filmen, han indtager utrolig meget narkotika og går fuldstændig amok med en M16A2-M203.


    Nu tror jeg ikke lige at vikingerne havde M16A2-M203 til rådighed :clap:
    (lidt plat, men jeg kunne ikke lige nære mig)


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  • Quote

    Originally posted by dna


    Nu tror jeg ikke lige at vikingerne havde M16A2-M203 til rådighed :clap:
    (lidt plat, men jeg kunne ikke lige nære mig)


    - Anders


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  • Sådan som jeg har forstået det, så fik Vikingerne kvinderne til at spise en bestemt mængde fluesvamp, hvorefter mændene drak deres urin og opnåede derved rus...


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  • Theories on the causes of the berserkergang


    Theories about what causes berserker behavior include spiritual possession, ingestion of materials with psychoactive properties, psychological processes, and medical conditions.


    A Horizon Book on Vikings claims that some chieftains would hold their berserkers in reserve during a battle. Once a portion of the enemy line appeared to tire or weaken, the chieftains would send the berserkers charging into the enemy ranks to hopefully open a break and even panic the enemy. The book also claimed that while on sea voyages close to land, the berserkers would sometimes ask to go ashore to find objects on land to wrestle or bash to vent their fury.


    According to a theory of spirit possession, the berserk rage was achieved through possession by the animal spirit of either a bear or a wolf. Berserkers would cultivate an ability to allow the animal spirit to take over their body during a fight. This is seen as a somewhat peculiar application of animal totemism.


    Botanists have suggested the behavior might be tied to ingestion of bog myrtle (Myrica gale syn: Gale palustris), a plant that was one of the main spices in alcoholic beverages in Scandinavia. The drawback is that it increases the hangover headache afterwards. Drinking alcoholic beverages spiced with bog myrtle the night before going to battle might have resulted in unusually aggressive behavior.


    The notion that Nordic Vikings used the fly agaric mushroom to produce their berserker rages was first suggested by the Swedish professor Samual Ödman in 1784. Ödman based his theory on reports about the use of fly-agaric among Siberian shamans. The notion has become widespread since the 19th century, but no contemporary sources mention this use or anything similar in their description of berserkers. In addition, the injection of bufotenine from Bufo marinus toad skin into humans was shown to produce similar symptoms to the "Berserker" descriptions. These findings, first examined by Howard Fabing in 1956, were later linked to the induction of zombie characteristics by ethnobotanists in 1983.


    A UK television programme in 2004 tested the possible use of fly agaric and alcohol by training a healthy volunteer in the use of Viking weapons, then evaluating his performance under the influence of fly agaric or alcohol compared to no influence. It was shown that use of fly agaric or alcohol severely reduced his fighting ability, and the tentative conclusion drawn was that berserk state was achieved psychologically; otherwise, berserkers would have been too easy to kill. Of course, this does not take into account the mindset that the berserker likely would have attempted to place himself in.


    A simple theory attributes the behavior to drunken rage. It is also possible that berserkers worked themselves into their frenzy through purely psychological processes, perhaps using frenzied rituals and dances. According to Saxo Grammaticus they also drank bear or wolf blood.


    U.S. professor Jesse L. Byock claims (in Scientific American, 1995) that berserker rage could have been a symptom of Paget's disease. Uncontrolled skull bone growth could have caused painful pressure in the head. He mentions the unattractive and large head of Egill Skallagrímsson in Egilssaga. Other possibilities are mild epilepsy, rabies, and hysteria. Nevertheless, these theories are highly unlikely, as the berserkers would - seemingly - inevitably turn against each other instead of the enemies. During battle, they are consistently described in the frenzy of rage; yet, the berserkers, while sometimes purportedly felling allies, seem to have avoided attacking each other.


    Going berserk — berserksgangr or berserkergang — could also happen in the middle of daily work. It began with shivering, chattering of the teeth, and a chill in the body. The face swelled and changed its color. Next came great rage, howling, and indiscriminate brawling. When the rage quelled, the berserker was exhausted and dull of mind for up to several days. According to sagas, many enemies of berserkers exploited this stage to get rid of them.


    Manic Depressive (Bipolar Disorder) - Offers another possible explanation for this behavior. During a manic state, the person affected is impulsive and often seems uncontrolled, and often perceived as exhibiting aggressive behaviour. (A dysphoric mania consists of a manic episode with depressive symptoms. Increased energy and some form of anger, from irritability to full blown rage, are the most common symptoms.) After the manic high where the person has elevated energy levels, and the ability to disregard risky behaviour, the person enters a depressed state that lasts for several days.


    Max Weber used them as an example of charismatic authority


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker



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  • Quote

    Originally posted by Søndergård
    Sådan som jeg har forstået det, så fik Vikingerne kvinderne til at spise en bestemt mængde fluesvamp, hvorefter mændene drak deres urin og opnåede derved rus...


    Yummiiiiie.... ! :boxed:


    Jeg har nu læst at det var vikingerne over øst på... altså Rusland og omegn :))


    Men der er vel ingen der kan sige det helt sikkert...


  • Jeps, er også sån jeg har hørt det. Men grøn fluesvamp, der skal vel utrolig lidt til for at dø af den. Så er vel nærmere den røde de har spist, eller hva ?

  • Det jeg har hørt ang. urinen var med den røde. Også klart den bedste imo


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  • Quote

    Originally posted by Kenny


    Egne erfaringer? :boxed: ;)


    Self. :) Desværre har jeg aldrig været så heldig at finde den grønne :P


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  • Seriøst, vikinger er da for seje. Vi har jo engang ejet meget af Europa, pga. denne "rus". :boxing:


    PS. var der ikke noget med at i romertiden blev danskerne (blant andre barbarfolk nordpå) kaldt Saxerne?

  • Quote

    Originally posted by Marquis
    Jeps, er også sån jeg har hørt det. Men grøn fluesvamp, der skal vel utrolig lidt til for at dø af den. Så er vel nærmere den røde de har spist, eller hva ?


    Ja, det har helt afgjort været de røde! Jeg tror ikke man går særlig beserk af de lever- og nyreskade man får af de grønne... :P


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    Det er vist primært i rød fluesvamp at man finder denne nervegift som vikingerne altså indtog... Den er slet ikke nær så giftig, og der skal vist over et helt kg til, før det har dødelig effekt.

  • Quote

    Originally posted by Freakshow
    Seriøst, vikinger er da for seje. Vi har jo engang ejet meget af Europa, pga. denne "rus". :boxing:


    PS. var der ikke noget med at i romertiden blev danskerne (blant andre barbarfolk nordpå) kaldt Saxerne?


    Mener det var tyskerne og omegn...

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